Turbo function not doing anything. 9a Core.

[[e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

THe problem I have is with the Turbo function. I have enabled it, and the debugger overlay shows that it's running anywhere from 1400% to 2000%. UNTIL I start load something, then it falls down to 93%. I tried all kinds of settings on and off, but this I can't fix.

If I run say Contiki, after it's loaded (slowly), it says perhaps 1500% speed. Then if one do anything, like load a directory, it falls down to 93%. The turbo seems to only be active when your not doing anything.

So far I have tried to load d64 images from SD card. Mount in file browser, then reset to c64 basic prompt and load from there. I also tried loading prg files from file browser, same issue.

Any tips on what I'm doing wrong?

[Thomas Woinke [e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

Post by tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
If I run say Contiki, after it's loaded (slowly), it says perhaps 1500%
speed. Then if one do anything, like load a directory, it falls down to
93%. The turbo seems to only be active when your not doing anything.
Any tips on what I'm doing wrong?
You most likely have "Turbo IEC sensitive" (or whatever thats called

again) activated. Which is a good thing, because it makes your TC come out
of turbo mode whenever IEC bus accesses (Disk..) occur. This is to avoid
timing problems because otherwise the TC would drive the IEC much faster
than the (emulated) disk drive could ever handle.

As long as you don't do any disk accesses, you should be in turbo mode.
Elite plays so much better with 2MHz.

/thomas

[Tobias [e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

Post by Thomas Woinke thomas.woinke-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]

Post by tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
If I run say Contiki, after it's loaded (slowly), it says perhaps 1500%
speed. Then if one do anything, like load a directory, it falls down to
93%. The turbo seems to only be active when your not doing anything.
Any tips on what I'm doing wrong?
You most likely have "Turbo IEC sensitive" (or whatever thats called

again) activated. Which is a good thing, because it makes your TC come out
of turbo mode whenever IEC bus accesses (Disk..) occur. This is to avoid
timing problems because otherwise the TC would drive the IEC much faster
than the (emulated) disk drive could ever handle.
As long as you don't do any disk accesses, you should be in turbo mode.
Elite plays so much better with 2MHz.

yes, indeed. "IEC sensitive" is enabled by default, and unless you *really*
know what you are doing, you should never disable it (because most disk
loading will no more work in that case).

[Jens Drößler jens.droessler-S0/[e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

Say, on that matter, wouldn’t it work without “IEC sensitive” if the
emulated drive would be sped up synchronous with the CPU? And wouldn’t that
speed up the loading times without breaking compatibility to “specific”
loaders?



Von: chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Juli 2014 18:53
An: chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org
Betreff: Re: [chameleon_64] Turbo function not doing anything. 9a Core.





On Tuesday 22 July 2014, 08:41:07 Thomas Woinke

Post by Thomas Woinke thomas.woinke-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]

Post by tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
If I run say Contiki, after it's loaded (slowly), it says perhaps 1500%
speed. Then if one do anything, like load a directory, it falls down to
93%. The turbo seems to only be active when your not doing anything.
Any tips on what I'm doing wrong?
You most likely have "Turbo IEC sensitive" (or whatever thats called

again) activated. Which is a good thing, because it makes your TC come out
of turbo mode whenever IEC bus accesses (Disk..) occur. This is to avoid
timing problems because otherwise the TC would drive the IEC much faster
than the (emulated) disk drive could ever handle.
As long as you don't do any disk accesses, you should be in turbo mode.
Elite plays so much better with 2MHz.

yes, indeed. "IEC sensitive" is enabled by default, and unless you *really*
know what you are doing, you should never disable it (because most disk
loading will no more work in that case).

[Peter Wendrich [e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

Hoi,

No that wouldn't work. The CIAs are still running at standard speed so
data will get lost. And no (before anyone asks) we can not implement
"warp mode" like in VICE either as that will not be compatible with
cartridge mode. And let not forget the fact that there is a IEC
connector on the breakout cable that will stop to function if you
increase the clocks like proposed.

Oh as a side note. The drives are actually not synchronous to begin with
as they run at a different clock from the C64. So there is nothing to
synchronize anyway.

Hocus Pocus,
*poof* he is gone.

Say, on that matter, wouldn’t it work without “IEC sensitive” if the
emulated drive would be sped up synchronous with the CPU? And wouldn’t
that speed up the loading times without breaking compatibility to
“specific” loaders?
*Gesendet:* Dienstag, 22. Juli 2014 18:53
*Betreff:* Re: [chameleon_64] Turbo function not doing anything. 9a Core.

Post by Thomas Woinke thomas.woinke-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]

Post by tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
If I run say Contiki, after it's loaded (slowly), it says perhaps 1500%
speed.Then if one do anything, like load a directory, it falls down to
93%. The turbo seems to only be active when your not doing anything.
Any tips on what I'm doing wrong?
You most likely have "Turbo IEC sensitive" (or whatever thats called

again) activated. Which is a good thing, because it makes your TC

come out

Post by Thomas Woinke thomas.woinke-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
of turbo mode whenever IEC bus accesses (Disk..) occur. This is to avoid
timing problems because otherwise the TC would drive the IEC much faster
than the (emulated) disk drive could ever handle.
As long as you don't do any disk accesses, you should be in turbo mode.
Elite plays so much better with 2MHz.

yes, indeed. "IEC sensitive" is enabled by default, and unless you *really*
know what you are doing, you should never disable it (because most disk
loading will no more work in that case).
--
http://www.icomp.de http://wiki.icomp.de

------------------------------------

------------------------------------

[Jens Drößler jens.droessler-S0/[e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

There was a reason why I only asked about the emulated drive. I was aware
that even if this would work, the "IEC sensitive" would still be needed on
external drives.

Also, "synchronous" wasn't actually what I meant. More like "by the same
factor".

And just to gain the knowledge and if you have time to answer: What would be
needed to make such a feature work?


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Juli 2014 03:12
An: chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org
Betreff: Re: AW: [chameleon_64] Turbo function not doing anything. 9a Core.

Hoi,

No that wouldn't work. The CIAs are still running at standard speed so data
will get lost. And no (before anyone asks) we can not implement "warp mode"
like in VICE either as that will not be compatible with cartridge mode. And
let not forget the fact that there is a IEC connector on the breakout cable
that will stop to function if you increase the clocks like proposed.

Oh as a side note. The drives are actually not synchronous to begin with as
they run at a different clock from the C64. So there is nothing to
synchronize anyway.

Hocus Pocus,
*poof* he is gone.

Post by Jens Drößler jens.droessler-S0/***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
Say, on that matter, wouldn’t it work without “IEC sensitive” if the
emulated drive would be sped up synchronous with the CPU? And wouldn’t
that speed up the loading times without breaking compatibility to
“specific” loaders?
*Gesendet:* Dienstag, 22. Juli 2014 18:53
*Betreff:* Re: [chameleon_64] Turbo function not doing anything. 9a Core.
On Tuesday 22 July 2014, 08:41:07 Thomas Woinke

Post by Thomas Woinke thomas.woinke-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]

Post by tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
If I run say Contiki, after it's loaded (slowly), it says perhaps 1500%
speed.Then if one do anything, like load a directory, it falls down to
93%. The turbo seems to only be active when your not doing anything.
Any tips on what I'm doing wrong?
You most likely have "Turbo IEC sensitive" (or whatever thats

called > > again) activated. Which is a good thing, because it makes
your TC come out > of turbo mode whenever IEC bus accesses (Disk..)
occur. This is to avoid > timing problems because otherwise the TC
would drive the IEC much faster > than the (emulated) disk drive
could ever handle.

Post by Thomas Woinke thomas.woinke-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
As long as you don't do any disk accesses, you should be in turbo mode.
Elite plays so much better with 2MHz.

yes, indeed. "IEC sensitive" is enabled by default, and unless you
*really* know what you are doing, you should never disable it (because
most disk loading will no more work in that case).
--
http://www.icomp.de http://wiki.icomp.de

------------------------------------

------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links






------------------------------------
Posted by: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jens_Dr=F6=DFler?= <jens.droessler-S0/***@public.gmane.org>
------------------------------------

[Kjetil [e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

Well, I have disabled IEC sensitive, but it still runs at 93%. I have
only been loading from an SD card. My goal was to get rid of the disk
drive altogether. So are you saying is it supposed to be this slow from
an SD card?

Btw, as a sidenote, when I did try to load anything from disk, with any
setting, default, enabled external drive etc, enabled and disabled iec
sensitive, turbo enabled or disabled, it just crashes. So I was never
able to load anything from disk anyhow. Unless I took the TC out of the
machine.

The only thing I'm able to do is load from SD card, REALLY slowly. It's
much slower than from a 1541 without the TC. MMC retro replay didn't
speed up anything either. Actually I don't think it loaded with that
enabled at all.

Post by tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]

Post by Thomas Woinke thomas.woinke-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]

Post by tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
If I run say Contiki, after it's loaded (slowly), it says perhaps

1500%

Post by Thomas Woinke thomas.woinke-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]

Post by tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
speed. Then if one do anything, like load a directory, it falls

down to

Post by Thomas Woinke thomas.woinke-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]

Post by tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
93%. The turbo seems to only be active when your not doing anything.
Any tips on what I'm doing wrong?
You most likely have "Turbo IEC sensitive" (or whatever thats called

again) activated. Which is a good thing, because it makes your TC

come out

Post by Thomas Woinke thomas.woinke-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
of turbo mode whenever IEC bus accesses (Disk..) occur. This is to avoid
timing problems because otherwise the TC would drive the IEC much faster
than the (emulated) disk drive could ever handle.
As long as you don't do any disk accesses, you should be in turbo mode.
Elite plays so much better with 2MHz.

yes, indeed. "IEC sensitive" is enabled by default, and unless you *really*
know what you are doing, you should never disable it (because most disk
loading will no more work in that case).
--
http://www.icomp.de http://wiki.icomp.de

[[e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

Good Morning,

---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :


Well, I have disabled IEC sensitive, but it still runs at 93%. I have only been loading from an SD card. My goal was to get rid of the disk drive altogether. So are you saying is it supposed to be this slow from an SD card?


Whenever you load from anywhere in Turbo Mode, IEC sensitivity must be enabled, because the emulated 1541 is a seperate "computer", that has its own life inside your chameleon. It will crash otherways. No matter if "from sd card" (i.e. the emulated 1541) or a real 1541 device


Btw, as a sidenote, when I did try to load anything from disk, with any setting, default, enabled external drive etc, enabled and disabled iec sensitive, turbo enabled or disabled, it just crashes. So I was never able to load anything from disk anyhow. Unless I took the TC out of the machine.


Whenever you load from anywhere in Turbo Mode, IEC sensitivity must be enabled, because the emulated 1541 is a seperate "computer", that has its own life inside your chameleon. It will crash otherways. No matter if "from sd card" (i.e. the emulated 1541) or a real 1541 device


The only thing I'm able to do is load from SD card, REALLY slowly. It's much slower than from a 1541 without the TC. MMC retro replay didn't speed up anything either. Actually I don't think it loaded with that enabled at all.


"Loading from SD card" must use the emulated 1541 inside your chameleon. It is exact 100% as fast as a real 1541.




If you want to speed up loading, try using a fastloader. Most multifile programs do not support fastloaders. They have to be patched. Try looking for a fastloader Version of your prg.

Regards,

[fierman [e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

Just my 2 cents: a fast-start manual/tutorial of max 10 pages for the tl:dr
crowd wouldn't be a bad idea..

Post by nils.andreas-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
Good Morning,
Well, I have disabled IEC sensitive, but it still runs at 93%. I have
only been loading from an SD card. My goal was to get rid of the disk drive
altogether. So are you saying is it supposed to be this slow from an SD
card?
Whenever you load from anywhere in Turbo Mode, IEC sensitivity must be
enabled, because the emulated 1541 is a seperate "computer", that has its
own life inside your chameleon. It will crash otherways. No matter if "from
sd card" (i.e. the emulated 1541) or a real 1541 device
Btw, as a sidenote, when I did try to load anything from disk, with any
setting, default, enabled external drive etc, enabled and disabled iec
sensitive, turbo enabled or disabled, it just crashes. So I was never able
to load anything from disk anyhow. Unless I took the TC out of the machine.
Whenever you load from anywhere in Turbo Mode, IEC sensitivity must be
enabled, because the emulated 1541 is a seperate "computer", that has its
own life inside your chameleon. It will crash otherways. No matter if "from
sd card" (i.e. the emulated 1541) or a real 1541 device
The only thing I'm able to do is load from SD card, REALLY slowly. It's
much slower than from a 1541 without the TC. MMC retro replay didn't speed
up anything either. Actually I don't think it loaded with that enabled at
all.
"Loading from SD card" must use the emulated 1541 inside your chameleon.
It is exact 100% as fast as a real 1541.
If you want to speed up loading, try using a fastloader. Most multifile
programs do not support fastloaders. They have to be patched. Try looking
for a fastloader Version of your prg.
Regards,

[Tobias [e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

Post by Kjetil tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
Well, I have disabled IEC sensitive, but it still runs at 93%. I have
only been loading from an SD card. My goal was to get rid of the disk
drive altogether. So are you saying is it supposed to be this slow from
an SD card?

loading single files (.prg) from sd card via the file browser is "instant" -
however, when drive emulation is enabled, the emulated drive will be just
about as fast (or slow) as a real drive, yes. to improve that, you'll have to
take a similar route as with a real C64, ie either use a fastload cartridge
(for example RR, which is preinstalled) or a speeder kernal (such as jiffy
dos).

Post by Kjetil tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
Btw, as a sidenote, when I did try to load anything from disk, with any
setting, default, enabled external drive etc, enabled and disabled iec
sensitive, turbo enabled or disabled, it just crashes. So I was never
able to load anything from disk anyhow. Unless I took the TC out of the
machine.

please tell exactly what you have been doing and what your exact configuration
is - loading from an external disk drive should certainly work :) perhaps you
had conflicting options enabled, make sure to always restore defaults before
trying to locate any problems.

Post by Kjetil tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
The only thing I'm able to do is load from SD card, REALLY slowly. It's
much slower than from a 1541 without the TC. MMC retro replay didn't
speed up anything either. Actually I don't think it loaded with that
enabled at all.

not sure what to make out if this - loading from the emulated drive should
certainly not be slower than from a real drive... perhaps your real drive (and
C64) has jiffy dos installed? in that case put a jiffy dos floppy rom on the
sd card, and the emulated drive will use it.

[Kjetil [e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

Thank you all, for your replies,

I sort of puzzled the picture together yesterday myself, before you
guys came with these great answers. I did not understand clearly that
the turbo mode only applies to the cpu speed. I understand now that to
get quicker loading one must apply some sort of fastloader routine to
the cartridge itself.

I guess I was assuming that it already came with it built in. For
several reasons, one being the name "Turbo...", and secondly since the
creator had previously made a fastload cartridge. I'll see if I can get
some version of Jiffydos working, as that seems to be most compatible,
and works great for most applications. As for the prg vs d64's, this
area was a little unclear to me aswell, as last time I used the C64, it
was all on diskettes, so no noticable difference. In vice both boot
quickly aswell.

On that note, is it possible to extract files from a d64 to it's native
.prg files and save to SD card? Or do one need other file sources to
begin with?

best

Post by Tobias tobias-S0d+***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]

Well, I have disabled IEC sensitive, but it still runs at 93%. I have
only been loading from an SD card. My goal was to get rid of the disk
drive altogether. So are you saying is it supposed to be this slow from
an SD card?

loading single files (.prg) from sd card via the file browser is "instant" -
however, when drive emulation is enabled, the emulated drive will be just
about as fast (or slow) as a real drive, yes. to improve that, you'll have to
take a similar route as with a real C64, ie either use a fastload cartridge
(for example RR, which is preinstalled) or a speeder kernal (such as jiffy
dos).

Btw, as a sidenote, when I did try to load anything from disk, with any
setting, default, enabled external drive etc, enabled and disabled iec
sensitive, turbo enabled or disabled, it just crashes. So I was never
able to load anything from disk anyhow. Unless I took the TC out of the
machine.

please tell exactly what you have been doing and what your exact configuration
is - loading from an external disk drive should certainly work :) perhaps you
had conflicting options enabled, make sure to always restore defaults before
trying to locate any problems.

The only thing I'm able to do is load from SD card, REALLY slowly. It's
much slower than from a 1541 without the TC. MMC retro replay didn't
speed up anything either. Actually I don't think it loaded with that
enabled at all.

not sure what to make out if this - loading from the emulated drive should
certainly not be slower than from a real drive... perhaps your real drive (and
C64) has jiffy dos installed? in that case put a jiffy dos floppy rom on the
sd card, and the emulated drive will use it.
--
http://www.icomp.de http://wiki.icomp.de

[Paul Förster paul_r_foerster-/[e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

Hi Kjetil,

I guess I was assuming that it already came with it built in. For several reasons, one being the name "Turbo..."

it's just like these old PCs that had the turbo button on the front side of the case back in the late 80's/early 90's. That also accelerated the CPU and not your floppy drive back then. Just think of it as being equivalent.
--
cul8er

Paul
paul_r_foerster-/***@public.gmane.org



------------------------------------
Posted by: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Paul_F=F6rster?= <paul_r_foerster-/***@public.gmane.org>
------------------------------------

['Kjetil' [e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

Ah, that makes a lot more sense now. I never thought of it that way, but I
guess I should have. J thanks!



From: chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:32 AM
To: chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [chameleon_64] Turbo function not doing anything. 9a Core.





Hi Kjetil,

I guess I was assuming that it already came with it built in. For several

reasons, one being the name "Turbo..."

it's just like these old PCs that had the turbo button on the front side of
the case back in the late 80's/early 90's. That also accelerated the CPU and
not your floppy drive back then. Just think of it as being equivalent.

['Kjetil' [e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

Could I ask, is there a consensus which fastloader rom is most popular, or
"best" with the Chameleon? I know the jiffy supposedly isn't the fastest,
but perhaps preferred anyway? I would most likely use it mostly for
networking and productivity apps, and Geos.



From: chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:32 AM
To: chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [chameleon_64] Turbo function not doing anything. 9a Core.





Hi Kjetil,

I guess I was assuming that it already came with it built in. For several

reasons, one being the name "Turbo..."

it's just like these old PCs that had the turbo button on the front side of
the case back in the late 80's/early 90's. That also accelerated the CPU and
not your floppy drive back then. Just think of it as being equivalent.

[Thomas Woinke [e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

I don't know if there is a consensus, but speaking of rom based fast
loaders, JiffyDOS works pretty well. Basically, any ROM based fast loader
that doesn't need special hardware like parallel cable should work.
I'd suggest you try the fast loader from the Retro Replay Cartridge since
it's already built into your TC64.

/thomas

Post by 'Kjetil' tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
Could I ask, is there a consensus which fastloader rom is most popular, or
“best” with the Chameleon? I know the jiffy supposedly isn’t the fastest,
but perhaps preferred anyway? I would most likely use it mostly for
networking and productivity apps, and Geos.
*Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:32 AM
*Subject:* Re: [chameleon_64] Turbo function not doing anything. 9a Core.
Hi Kjetil,

Post by Kjetil tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
I guess I was assuming that it already came with it built in. For

several reasons, one being the name "Turbo..."
it's just like these old PCs that had the turbo button on the front side
of the case back in the late 80's/early 90's. That also accelerated the CPU
and not your floppy drive back then. Just think of it as being equivalent.
--
cul8er
Paul

['Kjetil' [e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

I did, but it crashed when I tried to run Geos.



From: chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:36 AM
To: chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [chameleon_64] Turbo function not doing anything. 9a Core.





I don't know if there is a consensus, but speaking of rom based fast loaders, JiffyDOS works pretty well. Basically, any ROM based fast loader that doesn't need special hardware like parallel cable should work.

I'd suggest you try the fast loader from the Retro Replay Cartridge since it's already built into your TC64.



/thomas



On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:20 PM, 'Kjetil' tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64] <chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:



Could I ask, is there a consensus which fastloader rom is most popular, or “best” with the Chameleon? I know the jiffy supposedly isn’t the fastest, but perhaps preferred anyway? I would most likely use it mostly for networking and productivity apps, and Geos.



From: chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:32 AM
To: chameleon_64-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [chameleon_64] Turbo function not doing anything. 9a Core.





Hi Kjetil,

I guess I was assuming that it already came with it built in. For several reasons, one being the name "Turbo..."

it's just like these old PCs that had the turbo button on the front side of the case back in the late 80's/early 90's. That also accelerated the CPU and not your floppy drive back then. Just think of it as being equivalent.

[Spider Jerusalem [e-mail] [chameleon_64]]

Post by Kjetil tilstad-***@public.gmane.org [chameleon_64]
On that note, is it possible to extract files from a d64 to it's
native .prg files and save to SD card? Or do one need other file
sources to begin with?

You can do that with the filebrowser on your Chameleon. But you don't
really need to. Just press "Return" on a D64 and then "Return" on the
PRG you want to start and it will be loaded into memory immediately
(also the image will be mounted).
It's like in VICE.

The only difference is once you load from a virtual drive you can't do
sth. like "WARP" in VICE, because Chameleon "TURBO" is a CPU accelerator
and WARP in VICE just let's the whole emulation run as fast as your PC
can run it.

Cheers,
spider.


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